My B16 build

[Koczeka]

I already mentioned my plans in my introduction thread... http://www.hondabuild.com/showthread.php?t=830

The time has come... the 2 liter has headgasket problems... so the 1.6 is at the machine shop already... the 2 liter block may be reused later (if the shop confirm my feeling that it is OK otherwise).

The B16 build will consits of the following:
-Arias forged 7cc pistons 81.08mm
-Crower Billet Rods
-Endyn block girdle
-new Race ACL earings
-flat face Supertech valves
-IB ported head from the 2 liter
-SMSP B19 header
-AEM CAI + BPI stack + 68mmTB
-ATI crank damper
-ITR pumps, TODA timing belt, etc

Final CR will be close to 12:1

Since the 2 liter produced an excellent powerband I am about to make a crazy trial maybe nobody did before:
I will be using my Endyn custom IM from the 2 liter along with the Rocket m25x cams. :eek: If the result will be ridicoulous then we swap to the IB ported ITR IM and Toda C cams I have. My logic what resulted this crazy trial is the Endyn IM made about the same power on the 2l as the IB ported one until the top end where Endyn is better. It would be nice to see a similar powerband (moved up ~1000rpms).
Before U laugh I want to mention we have a 1.6 race engine here with Pro3 cams and 50mm ITBs making such a good power that no other 1.6 came close to it. I am courious how the big header, IM and cam combo will hurt the midrange and how high the power will last on the B16. Since the 2l made ~260@9000 I expect to make peak@10k on the 1.6 and I will probably need to increase VTEC crossover from 6k to 7k.

BTW we also have a friend here with a 1.6 what will be a good comparison, his setup (we plan to visit the same dyno the same day once we are both ready):
-bone stock 1.6 block except for 81.5mm PCT pistons
-SMSP 4-1 header for b16
-SkunkPro IM
-Pro1 cams
-CAI

Any comment appreciated. :D

piston:
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/38791741.jpg

rod:
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/38542890.jpg

cams:
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/38965855.jpg

[deddth]

i have no other commet than let you know than i'm waiting for updates on this particular build.

[FURYOF4]

Don't see many b16 builds of this caliber. I'm very interested in the results.

[Koczeka]

"interested in the results"

~3 weeks until startup... then brake in period (I estimate it to ~2 weeks daily drive to work)... only then final tune and dyno. I am eager to hear it singing.

[jrobson]

Cool, interested to see this, here we have a lot of B16's.

[Aquafina]

What a weak backup engine. :P

Funny people here are eager to buy knockoffs, and people over there get Dave to make a header for a B16 versus just going with the Toda.

Hungary FTW.

[Koczeka]

What a weak backup engine. :P

Funny people here are eager to buy knockoffs, and people over there get Dave to make a header for a B16 versus just going with the Toda.

Hungary FTW.

Sorry, these are the parts I have... {drooling}

[Koczeka]

It would be nice to get some opinion/advice/experience in addition to the "in for results" type of comments.

[Rocket]

Sounds like a 12K rpm experiment :)

[Koczeka]

Sounds like a 12K rpm experiment :)

Thanks. :D
I do not plan to rev more then 10300-10500 what is already crazy and I would be very surprised if the power would still climb there.
I will share the 1st result and then we together decide how to proceed.

[all-mtr-teg]

What kind of fuel do you have available at the pump?

[liveforphysics]

I would try to get compression higher. Over cam'd high RPM engines really require a ton of compression to function well. I know that's tough to do with a 77.4mm stroke, I would focus on decking the head down as much as possible. Your chambers are opened up to 84-85mm right now? Seems like inviting knock from end-gas pockets.

B16A is a fantastic engine, and it can work very well. I hope these parts don't deprive it of good gas motion velocity to keep VE high.

I'm looking forward to seeing your curves when you get it finished, I bet it will be a lot of fun to drive :) Make sure you've got a good damper and a well modded oil pump ;)

[Koczeka]

What kind of fuel do you have available at the pump?

We have 95, 98 and 100 available... Euro octane rating.

[Koczeka]

Here is the head (old pic, few more tenth mm will be milled). Not opened up.
I do not want to go higher with cr.
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/28117713.jpg

Here is the dyno of the Pro3 cammed, 50mm TWM equipped B16, cheap 4-1 header, similar cr. VTEC engaged before 6k. Not weak midrange and strong high end. @10k it still has more tq then the max of a stock b16. I would be very satisfied with sg. similar.
http://etitech.hu/boci1.jpg

How should I mod the R pump?
Regading damping... ATI is the one I have and I will use it.

[Aquafina]

How does the Euro octane rating differ. Would be interesting to see how your 100 octane varies from our 100 octane (available 24/7 at the pump here in town).

[Koczeka]

How does the Euro octane rating differ. Would be interesting to see how your 100 octane varies from our 100 octane (available 24/7 at the pump here in town).

As far as I know our 100 (available 24/7 almost everywhere) would be sg. like your 95.
Here (http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=1261) is a good description.

[all-mtr-teg]

We have 95, 98 and 100 available... Euro octane rating.

I'm assuming that's RON rating, unlike here in the U.S. which uses the RON and MON average. So 100 Ron is about the equivilent of U.S. 93 Octane IIRC.

[Koczeka]

The machine shop discovered a broken inner valve spring what damaged the retainer as well. (IB valvetrain)... Also, neither the slighly used flat Supertech valves I planned to cange to and my used ITR valves are OK. IMO I was pretty lucky revving over 9k daily without disaster.

I have sourced Rocket SL valvetrain and dished Supertech valves, so we can proceed.

[Koczeka]

I visited the machine shop yesterday...
Valve guides and lower retainers also need to be replaced... good news. :/
By tuesday they will be ready, so the assembly may begin then.

[deddth]

nice.

[Koczeka]

Another Hungarian B16, dynoed today... unusual tq. and very nice powerband. It will be very hard to beat.
Setup: TODA high cr pistons, JGE Ultralight rods, ported head, OBX ITBs, Hytech copy header, TODA D cams
http://img.carstyling.hu/usercars/00/00/21/45/2145_1254301617.jpg

[FURYOF4]

That a nice looking torque curve. 178NM ~ 131ftlbs is what I'm getting, very nice. That's a VERY strong b16.{oothers-}

[Koczeka]

Updates from the machine shop:
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/38990989.jpg
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/38990992.jpg
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/38990991.jpg
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/38990990.jpg

[FURYOF4]

Pistons look nicely deburred. {oothers-}

[Rocket]

How are the OBX ITBs? They look good, but I've never seen them in person.

[Koczeka]

How are the OBX ITBs? They look good, but I've never seen them in person.

Nothing special for my eyes. I forgot to take a photo... they had some issues before it is worked well.

I was surprised how well the "small" cam worked in that little engine (head and block milled a LOT, so reached quite high cr). IMO they have reached a very harmonic setup and they had big luck doing that.

[Koczeka]

Problem discovered with the pistons.... valve pockets on the intake side not big enough. They are smaller then a std size valve (!!!) and since the head is milled they have to be modified even deeper. :cool:

[Rocket]

Doh!

[Koczeka]

All the machine work is finally done, the assembly may begin...

[Koczeka]

Block is in the car. Head is all assembled...
Waiting for the TODA timing belt (on the way from Japan to Hungary). I used it on my 2l build and it is needed IMO with these aggressive cams.

[FURYOF4]

Overnight parts from Japan always add Hp, :p

[IanB]

Good looking build, can't wait for the results!

[Koczeka]

Status a few days ago...

Pistons with enlarged valve pockets.
http://img.carstyling.hu/usercars/00/00/21/45/2145_1255876500.jpg

IB ported head with reworked bump before the valve guide.
http://img.carstyling.hu/usercars/00/00/21/45/2145_1255876559.jpg

Engine bay.
http://img.carstyling.hu/usercars/00/00/21/45/2145_1255876581.jpg

[deddth]

i see progress and i like it :TU:

[Koczeka]

i see progress and i like it :TU:

1st startup scheduled for tomorrow...

[Aquafina]

I see you still have the stereo. Do you take it out when you run?

[Koczeka]

I see you still have the stereo. Do you take it out when you run?

Of corse not.
BTW, I am not drag racing... I leave it to mentally handicapped people. {drooling}

[Koczeka]

No luck with the 1st startup. Everything was double-checked. No spark... may be due to the MSD ignition... it does not like when the battery is not fully charged.

[eg1.8]

Any luck getting this thing to turn over yet?

[Koczeka]

Any luck getting this thing to turn over yet?

Yes! I was not present...:
Despite the charged battery no luck until an other car with running engine and cable. Engine runs very smooth and picking up revs like a bike.

I will visit the shop tomorrow morning with my laptop. It seems I have to pull more fuel than the current -30% compared to the 2l program.

[Koczeka]

I have made a temporary quick tune until 3500-4000 in the 1st couple of kms yesterday.
Today I drove it home from the shop... 50kms... ran great.

[IntegraType-R]

I have made a temporary quick tune until 3500-4000 in the 1st couple of kms yesterday.
Today I drove it home from the shop... 50kms... ran great.

Do you need a map?

[Koczeka]

Do you need a map?

Sure, I need a perfect map!!! :D
We have all the tools needed to make one working very well. ;)

[IntegraType-R]

Sure, I need a perfect map!!! :D
We have all the tools needed to make one working very well. ;)

Email i got a few, tuned maps u can have.. whats ur setup?

[IntegraType-R]

NM whats ur email, i got a perfect map, what injectors u using?

[98vtec]

what do you mean by not opened up?

[Koczeka]

NM whats ur email, i got a perfect map, what injectors u using?

-Arias forged 7cc pistons 81.08mm
-Crower Billet Rods
-Dish Supertech valves
-IB ported head, milled 1mm
-SMSP B19 header
-AEM CAI + BPI stack + 68mmTB
-Endyn custom IM
-Rocket m25x cams with Rocket valvetrain
-RC 440 inj. @ stock ITR fuel pressure

U can use the FTP site... we both have a folder there... 16start.bin is the car now.

[IntegraType-R]

-Arias forged 7cc pistons 81.08mm
-Crower Billet Rods
-Dish Supertech valves
-IB ported head, milled 1mm
-SMSP B19 header
-AEM CAI + BPI stack + 68mmTB
-Endyn custom IM
-Rocket m25x cams with Rocket valvetrain
-RC 440 inj. @ stock ITR fuel pressure

U can use the FTP site... we both have a folder there... 16start.bin is the car now.

k

[IntegraType-R]

lemme look, i had a setup almost like urs for 240cc, lemme see if i have something closer to 440cc's..

You can have two of the same setups, one on 750, one on 270 and neither will work.

Lemme get back to you.

[Koczeka]

lemme look, i had a setup almost like urs for 240cc, lemme see if i have something closer to 440cc's..

You can have two of the same setups, one on 750, one on 270 and neither will work.

Lemme get back to you.

I really appreciate your effort, but I do not think anyone can give a good enough map. I create(d) my own... fuel is Euro 100oct.

[98vtec]

what do you mean by not opened up?

.

[Koczeka]

update: 250kms in the odometer, everything seems fine

[deddth]

nice.

any vids?

[d112crzy]

what do you mean by not opened up?
this

[Koczeka]

nice.

any vids?

not yet... BUT within 5 mins from writing this I will be on my way to work and with the phone I will make a short one for U ;)

Cold idle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW789TNA-qI

Cold idle engine bay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFbC-G2LoDc

Just leaving home
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VlZ8alCOZQ

Highway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF2MsFLpaPo

[Koczeka]

I have one wheel stud broken and one with bad screw (on the same wheel). Currently being replaced... 1 week delay in brakin... now @350kms.

Edit> Wheel studs issue solved.

[deddth]

k., i'll check those vids later today!

[Koczeka]

now @700kms...

[Koczeka]

@1000kms
Today is 1st VTEC day.

[deddth]

so tell us, how does the engine feel?

[Koczeka]

so tell us, how does the engine feel?

Only revved till 8K a few times (AFRs was great), since oil change needed...
Feels/sounds great! VTEC was set at very early 6K for now and surprisingly felt OK!

[Koczeka]

during the final programming an ex. valve dropped @8500...

[SOHCinWA]

Oh no.... Have you taken it apart yet to see the damage?

[Koczeka]

Oh no.... Have you taken it apart yet to see the damage?

No, only the valve cover and spark plugs are removed... failure is obvious, reason is mystery for me.
I guess the whole engine is junk, except for head internals, crank, rods.

[jrobson]

That's a pity, some real bad luck, was really looking forward to your experience with this setup...

[IntegraType-R]

Oh my bro.. :(

[FURYOF4]

:(

Oh man that sucks. Sorry to hear.

[Rocket]

Ah bad news, but I know Kozecka is going to come back strong.

[Koczeka]

Ah bad news, but I know Kozecka is going to come back strong.

NO, I give up serious engine builds for a LONG period.

A rebuilt zero miles stockish B18C6 block with Nippon Racing PCTs and stock PR3 head will be used with the existing boltons, I will be change to the IB ported ITR IM and the TODA Cs (or sg. smaller if I can change). :(

[95skunkedgsr]

man sorry to hear that .. i hate when i read a build thread and it turns out like this it just sucks it so much money wrapped up into it that ppl just cant aford to risk it all again

[gecko49]

why did the valve drop?

[Koczeka]

why did the valve drop?

cam was degreed in (the 2 liter worked fine with the relative +2,0 setting), timing belt did not jump, valve lash was checked 2 or 3 times... so no idea except for machine shop made a mistake

[IntegraType-R]

Dont give up dude, thats horrible.. i'm sorry this happened.. valvekeeper let go maybe?

[slowsleeper]

Nice build..sucks to hear about what happened though, really wanted to see the results.

[deddth]

oh man koczecka, sorry to hear this... painful.

[Koczeka]

oh man koczecka, sorry to hear this... painful.

It is going to be a hard talk with the machine shop guy prob. on monday, since I blame them.

[Aquafina]

Wait until Tuesday, they will be in a better mood and will feel worse about it and/or easier to deal with.

[Koczeka]

Wait until Tuesday, they will be in a better mood and will feel worse about it and/or easier to deal with.

I am back from the machine shop...
After cleaning it seems valve to piston contact (@high rpm) caused the problem, so: "mea culpa". The shop may only be blamed not even considering P2V clearance should be measured. I blame myself not forcing them to do it (as I did with valve to valve pocket clearance... and avoided that failure as turned out).

[deddth]

so koczecka: what are the plans then?

[Koczeka]

B18C6 block with 81.5mm Nippon PCTs, zero kms.
Stock PR3 head
Rocket SL valvetrain
TODA C cams
Import Builders ported ITR IM
SMSP B19

[deddth]

sounds like a plan! :TU:

[Koczeka]

sounds like a plan! :TU:

It is already up and running... ;)
TODAs degreed to 100,106 and it was clayed.
Due to a minor coolant leak at the IM coolant neck, so we switch to the Endyn IM.

[deddth]

can you post a pic of that endyn im, please?

thank you!

[Koczeka]

can you post a pic of that endyn im, please?

thank you!

Bigger one
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/34458867.jpg

Smaller one (installed on tha car)
http://img3.tar.hu/koczeka/img/35549273.jpg

[deddth]

oh wow... beautiful pieces. expensive, right?

btw, cute kid. killer. lol.

[Koczeka]

oh wow... beautiful pieces. expensive, right?

btw, cute kid. killer. lol.

yeah, expensive... and since Larry was very busy with some factory R&D contract that time it was very hard to place the order at all

[egb18c5]

very nice piece. hopefully some time in the future i can buy one and test it out on my never ending B series project lol