new setup (more plotting and questions)

[killerpenguin21]

so of course i can never stop thinking about improvements, and rebuilding, and now with the advent of a way to get a clean inspection sticker i can stop thinking about selling my car.

so, setup now

81x89 lsvtec (p30 pistons)
pro 1's
CC ported gsr head (his old mid level package)
50mm TWM itb's
AN-R header
2.3 inch exhaust

made 203/140 this year.

now, im pretty sure my cyliner 1 oil control ring is toast due to my own stupidity, along with a bunch of seals being shit and the motor forever leaking oil on me. so im thinking of pulling it, and changing it up a bit.

for my own peace of mind i think i want to go to 81.5 bore, so i think that would put me with 81.5 RS machines itr pistons. my ls rods may have seen a little too much heat for pressing the past pistons on so i may or may not go up to eagles.

this yields me with a little lower compression than id like, as i was thinking of possibly trying the pro2's. opinions?

i will also be adding a 3 inch catback, and i will do something about the header, although im undecided still, im currently liking the skunk2 and the bisi, and they cost about the same. opinions there?

im really hoping to put out 215-220 on a dynapack, as i think that would boogy with my 4.9 FD, and on slicks should be capable of i think low 13's if not high 12's. this would hold me over, and allow me to use my spare LS to build an SFWD motor.

discuss please.

[Tonio]

so of course i can never stop thinking about improvements, and rebuilding, and now with the advent of a way to get a clean inspection sticker i can stop thinking about selling my car.

so, setup now

81x89 lsvtec (p30 pistons)
pro 1's
CC ported gsr head (his old mid level package)
50mm TWM itb's
AN-R header
2.3 inch exhaust

made 203/140 this year.

now, im pretty sure my cyliner 1 oil control ring is toast due to my own stupidity, along with a bunch of seals being shit and the motor forever leaking oil on me. so im thinking of pulling it, and changing it up a bit.

for my own peace of mind i think i want to go to 81.5 bore, so i think that would put me with 81.5 RS machines itr pistons. my ls rods may have seen a little too much heat for pressing the past pistons on so i may or may not go up to eagles.

this yields me with a little lower compression than id like, as i was thinking of possibly trying the pro2's. opinions?

i will also be adding a 3 inch catback, and i will do something about the header, although im undecided still, im currently liking the skunk2 and the bisi, and they cost about the same. opinions there?

im really hoping to put out 215-220 on a dynapack, as i think that would boogy with my 4.9 FD, and on slicks should be capable of i think low 13's if not high 12's. this would hold me over, and allow me to use my spare LS to build an SFWD motor.

discuss please.
What happened to the #1 cylinder?
Why not run P30's again?
You're from Mtown right?
If you need any help let me know.

[killerpenguin21]

my car lived outside for most of its life, including when i had the head out for porting, and unfortunately i didnt seal the block well enough. cylinder 1 wall had some surface rust, i cleaned it off with wd40 and a mild scrub pad carefully, and it was smooth to the touch, but every since i put the head back on (which included new seals etc) its been smoking under heavy load at higher rpm's.

i could run p30's again, i just didnt look into availability in 81.5.

yes im from mtown, i may have to start hanging out with the newburgh people next year, since most of my friends got fed up with our scene and got rid of their cars.

[mar778c]

So far I like what you are planning to do.

Eagle rods and forged pistons are the way to go. If not P30s and LS will suffice.
Boring to 81.5 mm if you have a oil control problem is good.

The Bisi or Skunk2 units are good. If you are looking for even better let me know.
3" inch exhaust in a race car is not a problem. In fact, it is recommended at a minimum.

Stay with the Pro1s, if you make the above changes especially the header and exhaust along with the rebuild, your car will make high 12 sec passes on street tires.

[killerpenguin21]

So far I like what you are planning to do.

Eagle rods and forged pistons are the way to go. If not P30s and LS will suffice.
Boring to 81.5 mm if you have a oil control problem is good.

any idea if the RS cast pieces can handle some juice? i have some other very bad ideas in the back of my head...

The Bisi or Skunk2 units are good. If you are looking for even better let me know.
3" inch exhaust in a race car is not a problem. In fact, it is recommended at a minimum.

i am looking for better, but i have a feeling your design with synapses work...is not very cost effective lol. as far as the 3 inch, i should have done it from the beginning, but i just listened to the masses that it was too big.

Stay with the Pro1s, if you make the above changes especially the header and exhaust along with the rebuild, your car will make high 12 sec passes on street tires.

at what point do you think the pro1's will run out of gas?

high 12's would be nice, im gonna need some axles.

oh and im a dumbass...i should probably just pull apart the LS shotblock i have and build a new bottom end out of that and then just swap the blocks...makes sense doesnt it?

[DC_Legacy]

Sounds good, very similiar to plans I've had with my motor too although I'll have to delay those plans until I can find employment now...:( Maybe take one for the team and give the new Bisi header a shot so we can all see how stellar this thing really is by all the dyno posts on it here lately :rolleyes:

[killerpenguin21]

well the block work and exhaust stuff i should be able to do over winter possibly depending on how much money i blow in vegas. i just got my intern position back, but i know i will be fired on december 31, because i will not sign an employment contract with them. after that im hoping i will have a real world job come summer and can get the header and start an SFWD beast.

[mar778c]

any idea if the RS cast pieces can handle some juice? i have some other very bad ideas in the back of my head...

If your going to play with spray then go forged

i am looking for better, but i have a feeling your design with synapses work...is not very cost effective lol. as far as the 3 inch, i should have done it from the beginning, but i just listened to the masses that it was too big.

Yeah, it is not cheap but maybe worth it.

at what point do you think the pro1's will run out of gas?

I don't think you will on a 1.8L or even a 2.0L.

[IntegraType-R]

put the dope on it.

[killerpenguin21]

the dope? aka spray?

i prolly cant afford fully forged pistons anyway

[killerpenguin21]

so back from the dead...

what might be the consequnces of going from 11.8 to 11.3cr while leaving everything else the same?

[IntegraType-R]

allowing more room for the dope..

I might want those itbs back from you lol.. wanna trade me back?


VictorX manifold / 70MM TB / intake with BPI vstack and full fuel system lol!!!

For the entire induction setup? lol

[95skunkedgsr]

integra wouldnt those itbs be a lil small for your setup

[IntegraType-R]

integra wouldnt those itbs be a lil small for your setup

Maybe.. i dunno
Haven't really thought about it.
Just seeing if he would go for it. LOL

[95skunkedgsr]

always worth the shot lol i thought about itbs for mine , luv the sound of em

[Uncle Dave]

How far down the bore do your current P30 pistons sit?

[killerpenguin21]

allowing more room for the dope..

I might want those itbs back from you lol.. wanna trade me back?


VictorX manifold / 70MM TB / intake with BPI vstack and full fuel system lol!!!

For the entire induction setup? lol

If you still had a performer I'd be all over that

[killerpenguin21]

How far down the bore do your current P30 pistons sit?

My build sheet is back in new York somewhere lol

I'm pretty sure the dome is out. Of the bore. I can post a picture later.

[00Red_SiR]

so back from the dead...

what might be the consequnces of going from 11.8 to 11.3cr while leaving everything else the same?

I'm actually going to do something very similar. I'm running about 11.5/.6:1 and will be going down to 11.3:1 with my new ported head (due to the combustion chamber configuration.) I'm looking at picking up a set of pro 2's and going down to see D-Rob (I haven't spoken to him about this yet) this spring/summer and have him fully tune my setup with my M22x cams and then install my pro 2's, fully tune them and see how they compare.

I know it's not an "apples to apples" comparrison but I really like the M22x cams and was curious to see how the pro 2's would work for me in my new build. I'll keep the ones that I like best and post the results here for everyone to see.

The two things I looked at were the test of D-Rob's fathers CRX where they dropped the compression ratio down and went with a good ported head and still saw power gains. The other thing was a recent test where a guy in Quebec ran pro 2's on an 11:1 JDM ITR motor (stock) and it made good power everywhere.


allowing more room for the dope..

I might want those itbs back from you lol.. wanna trade me back?


VictorX manifold / 70MM TB / intake with BPI vstack and full fuel system lol!!!

For the entire induction setup? lol

Did you get a chance to install and run your Victor X yet? I would think that manifold would do well on your build, better than your old ITB's.

[Uncle Dave]

We have been working on the airflow>compression for a little while now and found the engine very nice to drive and still makes great power,I am very interested to see the results of M22x vs Pro2 I find the M22x to be one of the best B/Vtec cams on the market as a DD and weekend beater cam.

[mar778c]

We have been working on the airflow>compression for a little while now

This is so fundamentally true. Compression is a 2nd order effect based on equations outline by Heyward. I found the most important thing is to get the most free flowing exhaust and match the cams, induction, and header to get the most positive wave dynamics (VE) as possible.


00Red_SiR, let me know when you are going to IMW. I'll meet you there.

[00Red_SiR]

00Red_SiR, let me know when you are going to IMW. I'll meet you there.

Absolutely, it would be great to meet some of you guys face to face.

[SR20S13]

not to thread jack but once i finish my build (whenever i get around to ordering parts haha) i say we make a dyno day out of it because i want to get my car tuned by him also

[killerpenguin21]

This is so fundamentally true. Compression is a 2nd order effect based on equations outline by Heyward. I found the most important thing is to get the most free flowing exhaust and match the cams, induction, and header to get the most positive wave dynamics (VE) as possible.


well you previosuly convinced me of that so...the new exhaust is the next step, id love to to get a different header, but i need to sell mine first of course, because i think the motor really is moving decent air.


not to thread jack but once i finish my build (whenever i get around to ordering parts haha) i say we make a dyno day out of it because i want to get my car tuned by him also

thats a pretty good idea, if i get all my work done, i was gonna be looking at late may early june for another tune, depending on when i have to move.

[00Red_SiR]

thats a pretty good idea, if i get all my work done, i was gonna be looking at late may early june for another tune, depending on when i have to move.

Realistically, that's around the same time I should be available to make the trip.

[killerpenguin21]

you have quite the long drive eh? (no pun intended lol!)

on a sidenote, i just found a guy selling a nitrous distro block setup for itbs...uh oh.

[00Red_SiR]

hell yeah, roughly 16 hours each way according to map quest.

[boostworks]

Send me a message about an exhaust. We did Tonio's

[killerpenguin21]

will do.

[boostworks]

will do.

Sounds good we always like to see nice builds come here!

EDIT: I got your PM it wont let me reply I dont have enough posts on here

shoot me an email
boostworksny@gmail.com

looking forward to hearing from you

[killerpenguin21]

so back from the dead again, since i have a snow day today.

i have the opportunity to pick up a b20 block for about 200 bucks shipped.

i can also stick with going 81.5x89.

adding a 3 inch exhaust, and hopefully finding a way to get a new header since the a-r would murder me on a b20 setup.

all things remaining the same setup wise. would you run an 81.5x89 or an 84x89, both being rs ITR pistons?

i was reading the good ol all motor dyno thread, and i think based on marc's setup making 220whp on 81.5x89 id be looking at 10whp more out of a 84x89 if im LUCKY...


help please? haha.

[FURYOF4]

Go for the B20 for sure.{oothers-}

Mo displacement = mo better

[patriot]

Go for the B20 for sure.{oothers-}

Mo displacement = mo better

Fo sho.

[mar778c]

More displacement.

[killerpenguin21]

sigh...you guys are zero help lol.

my main concern with going 84x89 is my rod situation. i don think i like my LS rods, although shot peened and arp hardware, in a setup like that. plus they would have to be modded to fit the rs machines pistons.

adding in eagle rods would hurt :eek: it would like double the cost to do this.

[egb18c5]

plus they would have to be modded to fit the rs machines pistons.

they dont have to be modded

[killerpenguin21]

sorry your right, the new version b20 ones dont the 81.25mm do need the rods shaved

[killerpenguin21]

bah...looks like the b20 block got sold out from under me...

so new pistons with eagles in the 1.8 it is i guess!

can stock sleeves handle 81.5? i cant find the damn rs's in an 81.25.

[SR20S13]

bah...looks like the b20 block got sold out from under me...

so new pistons with eagles in the 1.8 it is i guess!

can stock sleeves handle 81.5? i cant find the damn rs's in an 81.25.

you can go up to 82mm on stock sleeves...so yes they can

[killerpenguin21]

yeah i need to read before i open my damn mouth.

the rod decision is gonna kill me tho. no idea what to do lol

[Pumpingiron]

That´s my mane concern on my build also, thing is i wasn´t very atracted to b20 block because of the shity sleeves....all depends on wath your going to do! With a experience of a freind in Canada who´s doing alot of lapping e went to b20vtec then came back to ls-vtec.....

Anyways if your go with the b18, if you don´t need oversize more than .25mm you can go for oem pistons...i don´t like to oversize to much...it makes a safety zone for the next rebuids....and the choise you have for pistons!

I like also to have a gasket tickness+piston to deck more than 0.035"!

[all-mtr-teg]

yeah i need to read before i open my damn mouth.

the rod decision is gonna kill me tho. no idea what to do lol

Just run some PR3 style NPR pistons, no machining required with stock LS rods.

[killerpenguin21]

uh, pr3's would be a downgrade

[all-mtr-teg]

uh, pr3's would be a downgrade

Well, you wouldn't lose much CR, you'd go down from maybe 12.5:1 CR now, down to about 12:4 if you went 81.5mm. Plus a bit smaller dome would give you better flame propagation. I'm not a pro builder, but I was recommended by a few guys that are, not to use a piston with a dome taller than
a PR3 with a GSR head. Just my 2 cents

[killerpenguin21]

i dunno thats hard to believe after everything ive seen the p30's do, and watching them do 203/140 on my current motor with ease.

also, examples such as marcs motor which is sitting at a ripe 220whp out of a 81.5 with the itr copies...

i mean id be curious what there actual reasons were.

[all-mtr-teg]

i dunno thats hard to believe after everything ive seen the p30's do, and watching them do 203/140 on my current motor with ease.

also, examples such as marcs motor which is sitting at a ripe 220whp out of a 81.5 with the itr copies...

i mean id be curious what there actual reasons were.

I don't recall, but if Marcel's build has ITR copies, those have less dome than P30's and PR3's. I believe both guys I talked to said P30 pistons with GSR head don't have the best flame or flow characteristics or something like that. They both said ITR and PR3 are better than the P30 slugs with a GSR head. I'm not saying that the P30 pistons with a GSR head won't work, but I can understand their argument of sacrificing .1-.2 CR for better flame travel might be worth it.

[mar778c]

Guys,

I'm running RS machine ITR copies with a B16A head (99 SI). I believe Nate's motor is capable of those numbers. I think the difference in my build and others, I have a custom header and 3" exhaust.

[killerpenguin21]

I don't recall, but if Marcel's build has ITR copies, those have less dome than P30's and PR3's. I believe both guys I talked to said P30 pistons with GSR head don't have the best flame or flow characteristics or something like that. They both said ITR and PR3 are better than the P30 slugs with a GSR head. I'm not saying that the P30 pistons with a GSR head won't work, but I can understand their argument of sacrificing .1-.2 CR for better flame travel might be worth it.

well between the pr3 and p30 the difference in dome is only like .8 cc's which i would almost say is a negligible difference actually now that i look.

the p30's to itrs is like 3 cc's, so i could see the argument there maybe. was the flame travel the only issue?

back when i did research the ctr's of course were said to have horrible travel, but the p30's werent too bad...i dunno

my chambers on the head are also not stock, make a difference maybe? im no expert on the physics part haha.

Guys,

I'm running RS machine ITR copies with a B16A head (99 SI). I believe Nate's motor is capable of those numbers. I think the difference in my build and others, I have a custom header and 3" exhaust.

yup i know. although i still dont see mine picking up 15whp, my header is gonna murder my hopes haha.

[killerpenguin21]

interesting pic i found actually.
b16 right gsr left
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b78/killerpenguin21/p72vspr3combustionchamb.jpg

my chambers
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b78/killerpenguin21/new%20stuff/DSC06735.jpg

i know im still not close to a b16 chamber, but my sides are opened up, which must account for something?

i really wouldnt know, besides the head made 7whp after porting

[mar778c]

yup i know. although i still dont see mine picking up 15whp, my header is gonna murder my hopes haha.

I do see it. Look at D-rob's old build even Tonio's build. Those guys made serious power and the common denominator, a really good header.

[killerpenguin21]

yeah yeah i know. its just the most expensive thing on he list at this point.

so intersting discussion point.

81.5mm pr3's or p73's?

there is a big dome difference between the two.

[mar778c]

yeah yeah i know. its just the most expensive thing on he list at this point.

so intersting discussion point.

81.5mm pr3's or p73's?

there is a big dome difference between the two.

I think either will work well. I selected the P73's based on Steve's (omniman) meanderings.